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Poster: Edsel Date: Oct 23, 2008 10:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

"Kill all the rich people. ... Bring the revolution home. Kill your parents."


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63


http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 11:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The left is not socialist my ass

That never happend. The land of the underlined blue links is a myth. He is an education reformer!

Here is a speech you might find interesting...

President Hugo Chavez, invited guests, comrades. I’m honored and humbled to be here with you this morning. I bring greetings and support from your brothers and sisters throughout Northamerica! Welcome to the World Education Forum. Amamos la revolucion Bolivariana! ...

My comrade and friend Luis Bonilla, a brilliant educator and inspiring fighter for justice … has taught me a great deal about the Bolivarian Revolution [i.e., Chavez's movement] and about the profound educational reforms underway here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chavez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution, and I’ve come to appreciate Luis as a major asset in both the Venezuelan and the international struggle—I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.

I began teaching when I was 20 yeas old in a small freedom school affiliated with the Civil Rights Movement in the United States. The year was 1965, and I’d been arrested in a demonstration. Jailed for ten days, I met several activists who were finding ways to link teaching and education with deep and fundamental social change. They were following Dewey and DuBois, King and Helen Keller who wrote: “We can’t have education without revolution. We have tried peace education for 1,900 years and it has failed. Let us try revolution and see what it will do now.”

I walked out of jail and into my first teaching position (HOW ABOUT A FUCKING BACKGROUND CHECK????) and from that day until this I’ve thought of myself as a teacher, but I’ve also understood teaching as a project intimately connected with social justice. After all, the fundamental message of the teacher is this: you can change your life—whoever you are, wherever you’ve been, whatever you’ve done, another world is possible. As students and teachers begin to see themselves as linked to one another, as tied to history and capable of collective action, the fundamental message of teaching shifts slightly, and becomes broader, more generous: we must change ourselves as we come together to change the world. Teaching invites transformations, it urges revolutions small and large. La educacion es revolucion!

I’ve learned that education is never neutral. It always has a value, a position, a politics. Education either reinforces or challenges the existing social order, and school is always a contested space—what should be taught? In what way? Toward what end? By and for whom? At bottom, it involves a struggle over the essential questions: what does it mean to be a human being living in a human society?

Totalitarianism demands obedience and conformity, hierarchy, command and control. Royalty requires allegiance. Capitalism promotes racism and materialism—turning people into consumers, not citizens. Participatory democracy, by contrast, requires free people coming together, voluntarily as equals who are capable of both self-realization and, at the same time, full participation in a shared political and economic life.

Venezuelans have shown the world that with full participation, full inclusion, and popular empowerment, the failing of capitalist schooling can be resisted and overcome. Venezuela is a beacon to the world in its accomplishment of eliminating illiteracy in record time, and engaging virtually the entire population in the ongoing project of education.

(IGNORE THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH!)

We, too, must build a project of radical imagination and fundamental change. Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model of education—a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation.

Viva Mission Sucre!

Viva Presidente Chavez!

Viva La Revolucion Bolivariana!

Hasta La Victroria Siempre!

William Ayers 2006

My favorite part is this one:

"Capitalism promotes racism and materialism"

Brilliant, it doesn't promote freedom of choice, higher standards of quality and lower prices? Is anyone here going to not repudiate this guy? This is amazing.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The left is not socialist my ass

SKipping thru the nonsense...

>>William Ayers
"Capitalism promotes racism and materialism"

Brilliant, it doesn't promote freedom of choice, higher standards of quality and lower prices? Is anyone here going to not repudiate this guy? This is amazing. >>>


Basic logic tells you that Ayers is only making 2 claims. He hasn't said anything else in that sentence, so stop spinning your wheels.

Happily, while the right obsesses about a wash-up radical that's now a seated professor at the University of Chicago (and serving on nonprofits set up by Republicans), Obama is free to talk about the important matters at hand. Or just enough to stay out out of controversy.

This post was modified by spacedface on 2008-10-23 19:28:11

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The left is not socialist my ass

Read the whole article and stop dissecting things to make tiny little irrelevant points. The ugy is a douchebag of the highest order, the fact that a college would hire him is an insult to commone sense and an indicator of the reason why there are so many idiots.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 1:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The left is not socialist my ass

I read it twice and it just wasn't worth it.

Ayers doesn't seem so great in what I've heard from him -- but why did Republicans pick him to work on their nonprofts and serve on the board with him.

Is time to say that pal-ing around with Ayers "enlittles us all"? I think McCain should refuse money from the Annenbergs, nay all of Chicagoland, until they come clean.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 1:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Vote Green!

Edward Pinkney for congress... as soon as he gets out of jail he will be the best there is.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 1:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: McCain Suppressed Info POW MIAs

Report: McCain Suppressed Info on Fellow Vietnam POWs Left Behind

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/23/report_mccain_suppressed_info_on_fellow

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 2:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: spacedface for community organizer

http://www.archive.org/details/dn2006-0911_vid



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Poster: Beelzebubba Date: Oct 23, 2008 1:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Vote Green!

NC, how can you doubt the validity of spaced face's arguments?
He's obviously right.
He can even cite song lyrics to prove his political positions.
Hang in there sf, I'm with you bro!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Vote Green!

Even a rock & roll fantasy on the edge of reality is close enough to pretend sometimes.

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Poster: Beelzebubba Date: Oct 23, 2008 2:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Vote Green!

Hell yes! or whatever, I think.
Regardless of what either of yous guys say I'm still voting Kucinich!
How can he lose!---GO Sox!!!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 2:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Vote Green!

That's like giving your vote to Satan!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

"Kill all the rich people. ... Bring the revolution home. Kill your parents."

Not a funny as a "joke", as Ayers claimed in 2001.

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Poster: Edsel Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

Oh, you mean it became a joke AFTER he failed to achieve his goal ?

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 12:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

That was his justification of it.

For him not to clearly separate himself from that phrase, even if he didn't say it, is not a good sign for someone 60 years old.

But of course that has nothing to do with Obama!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 1:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

Except that obama praised his book, launched his career in his living room, sat on multiple boards with him... yeah I know anderberg or richard berg or hamburglar distraction, bla bla bla. Nixon was a republican too, doesn't mean he was not a crook, and colin powell acted like one until he was tired of being called an uncle tom. So what? You don't think the fact that obama associated with these racists and socialists matters?

If I sat in a church for 20 year where the preacher claimed that condi rice created crack and aids to kill white people, would you vote for me? I would hope not.

Please stop ignoring the 800 pound gorilla hiding behind a plastic palm tree and pointing out cracks in the plaster on the ceiling.

That is what you are doing. Ignoring giant factual red flags but pointing out trivial genrealizations and opinions. Everytime I make a point, you dance around it like obama on helen degeneres show. Imagine if oreilly asked obama to dance for the cameras in his interview...

At least white trash hater murtha is going to lose finally and this scumbag mahoney down here. Isn't alcee hastings a criminal too? I am sure since you are such a fair minded person you would agree that we need a check to the balance of power that would be weilded with an uber liberal congress and senate, right?

But let's drop ayers, rezko, wright, biden and all the other excretions and concentrate on oabama:

Raising taxes on investors and business at this time would be catastrophic.

Punishing people for success and rewarding people for failure will have ramifications for years to come.

Withdrawing from any military conflict without finishing the job will affect the entire world for years to come, we should have learned our mistake from viet nam.

Spreading wealth around is pointless, it will be back in the hands of the competent and ambitious in a generation anyway. Go handing out money to homeless people and what do they do? Buy liqour or drugs, treat their mental illness with existing medicaid and VA medical benefits that most of them have and teach them how to live and guess what? They might not stand in the sun begging change from someone who uses a checkcard and barely has enough to pay their own bills after the IRS gets theirs.

Shit on communism, shit on facism, racism and anything else that deliberately forces me to pick up the tab for someone who doesn't want help.

Do you live in a gated community?

Have you ever been poor?

Just curious, most liberals I have met in person have never been the victims of racism or discrimination themselves. They are usually rich kids who's parents put them through school and they feel guilty for having money they did not earn. Trust funders we call them on the east coast, spoiled little fake hippies that hang out at headshops and drive BMW's and talk about changing the world with their magic crystals and biofeedback dildo's.

But seriously I am curious to know where you come from and how you came up with all these theories. It surely was not a community college on a visa card. Prove me wrong.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 2:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

>>>But seriously I am curious to know where you come from and how you came up with all these theories. It surely was not a community college on a visa card. Prove me wrong.>>>

I come from the US. In the America I knew we had financial aid, scholarships, work programs, and low-end jobs that all helped people go to school.


>>>launched his career in his living room>>>

Is launch the word you want, or did it come from gee, I don't know, ah, Satan?! (add churchlady impression)


>>>sat in a church for 20 year where the preacher claimed that condi rice created crack and aids to kill white people>>>

Umm, uhh. One problem areas would be ~sat for 20 years. Didn't happen.
Hmm, do Black pople import the crack? Import guns into South Central by the trainful?

Everytime a point is made that might prove something in erro on your part, you make ridiculous anlaogies and try to change the subject.

Why rest upon stale Reaganite GOP talking points. Some of those people have been peddling the same garbage and have been in power since Nixon. They've failed miserably, and it's now time for the Hippie Agenda (tm). It's inclusive, so don't worry.

Spreading wealth around is NOT pointless. Anyone who pays even salestax contributes, and the "giveaway" is tiny if it ever happens in the way the naysayers claim. What Wall Street get trillions and the rest of US should just shut up?

Getting money to people who will spend it and need it is the goal, and it's just a return to recent history. Which is probably more favorable to the extremely wealthy than Ike's administration of the 1950s.

In any case, it's no time to hate!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 3:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

Honestly , you haven't had any valid points that I didn't agree with but if you really want to believe that be my guest.

Don't answer the questions... then.

Whatever...

You really think the government deliberately tries to kill black people with aids and crack? That is amazing!

Think about this for a second... if you would.

If the government was purposely racist and trying to kill black people (which is absurd) would they create a healthcare epidemic that would spread to everyother race and cost billions to themselves in increased medical costs and awareness and prevention policies?

Or better yet, with crack, would they not only create massive treatment, prevention and enforement cost again for whitey and themselves by introducing crack to the ghetto? You may not acknowledge it but crime statistics against GI whitey might go up. So creating a bunch of crackheads might be a bit self defeating in the long run, no? Wouldn't it also spread to evil whitey after marion barry passed the pipe? I am sure all the evil white people who were carjacked and killed for a $5 rock would support that analogy.

It's absurd and you have to be kidding, if so, touche... if not, douche.

I have answered almost every point you have made with proof it was exaggerated or inaccurate, you have never answered one thing with an honest answer. And then you accuse me of that, is this a joke?

This post was modified by NoiseCollector on 2008-10-23 22:04:21

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 3:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

I work better in smaller chunks.

No doubt there is something I've agreed with but your posts are sometimes deadened with numerous items that wither in the light of reason.

When assumptions are tightly packed you have to look at things in smaller chunks to really see what the assumptions are, right or wrong.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 3:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bill Ayers for citizen of the year!

I understand the concept, trust me. I honestly cannot stand watching debates and interviews where people won't asnwer the questions, instead asking new questions.

I have made every attempt to provide an answer and yet I usually just get "snide" or dismissive generalizations and completely off the wall answers. Just read the conversations and you will see me answering line by line as best as possible, and then asking you specific questions on the environmental factors you have experienced in order to try and understand your position.

From what I can determine, and please correct me as I have asked at least once, you never had it rough and tried to use the great public assistance you champion to find it doesn't apply to everyone. You might not have ever been skipped over for promotion by someone half as smart, 10% as experienced and twice as absent from work based on race and a tax break because of affirmative action. You probably never had to fight your way out of a race riot at school, and by race riot I mean being attacked because you are not a minority and happened to be in the wrong hallway. Have you ever emptied trash cans? Scrubbed toilets? Worked 3 jobs and tried to finish school?

I am guessing, and again prove me wrong, that you have had it easy and don't understand how hard life can be if you don't have family or charity to help you out of a jam. I only say that because you won't tell me anything that isn't vague. (Like the from america comment)

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 4:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ayers teacher for right wing foundations!

Bring the violins and the heavy syrup, because mine is a sad tale. Half of my life was spent doing some other clucker's time, and the other half -- well you know the score.

When I was passed over or laid-off, it was sometimes due to bias or nepotism but not racial (except if people hate reddish hair). Perhaps it played a factor once where I was accused of stealing but they eventually found out who it was (a white guy of course), and I can still laugh at a friend of a friend for taking the wrong side if he takes an attitude. Now, the other half was my own fault, living the good life, well I know.



This post was modified by spacedface on 2008-10-23 23:04:16

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 23, 2008 4:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: "Kerry stole election from nader" or "Gordon Liddy says legalize marijuana"

A ginger, I knew it.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Oct 23, 2008 8:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why Joe the Plumber is a Socialist (And You Are, Too)

>>A ginger, I knew it. >>

The right wing spends like there is no tommmorrow, whic is what they hope for.

http://www.counterpunch.org/morris10232008.html

And it's a volatile, secretive kind of socialism, one that can only respond spasmodically to the crises it inevitably creates, throwing gobs of money to the last desperate survivors of financial ships it deregulated to the bottom of the ocean. We've had bubbles in stocks (1920s), commercial real estate (1980s), energy (2000s), and housing (2000s), based on finance-backed feeding frenzies. At the end of each of these you'll find socialism on a grand scale instituted to repair the damage, including, of course, the S&L bailout of the 1980s and the current bailout package. But it's too often forgotten that the New Deal itself, that devilish boogeyman of the right, only became possible because deficit spending was needed to keep afloat a financial system gutted in part by stock speculators borrowing on margin – a risk that has since been abetted, not by removing rules, but by making more of them, and making them smarter.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Oct 24, 2008 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Democrats against regulating fannie mae

Like when mccain supported reeling in fannie mae in 2005 and barney fife and the boyz said their was nothing wrong with fannie mae and freddie mac?

And I already posted this but here it is again:

Under Jimmy Carter we received the Community Reinvestment act. This
law says banks have to make loans in low income areas and it has forced many
lending institutions to seek to make loans to people in areas that lenders
would not normally go because of the risk and low property values. (Sub
Prime Loans). This was in 1977. In 1980 president Carter and a Democratic
controlled congress passed the Depository Institutions Deregulation and
Monetary Control Act-- The law also removed the power of the Federal Reserve
Board of Governors under the Glass-Steagall Act and Regulation to set the interest rates of
savings accounts. A Sad fact is we are all still feeling the effects of his
policies and decisions 30 years later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_Q

Then in 1995, Bill Clinton, (in between interns) made changes to the
Community Reinvestment Act, that forced an increase in the number of loans

to these people and the aggregate dollar amounts loaned.-- Larger loans to
people with less income in areas where the collateral value would go down
instead of up. ( Clinton should have had his mind on the long range effects
of this instead of Monica and a good cigar.) This was in response to
pressure from "community organizer." Can you think of a former Community
organizer running for president? Hint - he's a Democrat

In 1999 Mr. Clinton signed to repeal the Glass-Steagall act which
had protected taxpayers since the Great Depression.

In 2003 President Bush tried to propose a change in regulatory
control over Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and place both companies under the
control of the Department of the Treasury, but was voted down by the liberal
democrats led by Barney Frank. Remember the name Barney Frank, he is one of
Obama's top two economic advisors the other is Jim Johnson who

was the head of Freddie Mac and walked away with $24,000,000.

Now, Mr. Obama and his liberal cronies are spinning the facts so you will

believe that all our financial problems are because of Bush's failed economic

policy. However, OBAMA'S two MOST TRUSTED ECONOMIC ADVISERS TO

HIS CAMPAIGN are the very people that were in control of Freddie Mac- Jim Johnson $24,000,000 and Fannie Mae – (Franklin Raines $90,000,000 in 6 years).

In addition, since 1989 their have been several politicians who have received campaign donations and kick backs from these two failed institutions. The #1 recipient is Senator Chris Dodd-D RI and the runner up is none other than Senator Barrack Obama who received the second largest amount of donations (over $500,000) which is phenomenal because he has only been in the Senate for 3 years.

When Enron went belly up, we demanded Senate hearings and investigations.
Why aren't the Democrats demanding the same with these companies?


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